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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 24 August 2025
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Displaying 1231 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

A range of measures are under way, and that point is under consideration. Secure care is more appropriate for 16 and 17-year-olds, as I have mentioned. The environment is age appropriate and child centred, with focused work to address the child鈥檚 specific behaviours. As I have said, a therapeutic and educational setting can help to lead children to healthier development and better outcomes, and it can decrease the likelihood of future offending.

Secure care is the right setting to better support children who require to be deprived of their liberty in order to address their underlying needs and the causes of their behaviours and to help them to reintegrate, to recover, to rehabilitate and to desist. That, in turn, will reduce the number of future victims and will benefit society as a whole.

Children are not mini-adults. A child鈥檚 propensity to alter their behaviour and change their path can be far greater than that of adults, as I have already mentioned this morning. Safe and trusting relationships are the absolute cornerstone of promoting children鈥檚 healthy development and positive outcomes. Through the provision of 24/7 care, the relationships that secure care staff can provide are absolutely key. That was something that the member mentioned specifically. The knowledge, skills, training and ratios of staff鈥攖here are often two staff per child鈥攁re supportive of the development of such relationships.

Staff in secure care centres must be registered and qualified in relation to care and education. The care-based, child-centred ethos and environment that secure care affords are supported by the centres, which are registered, monitored and inspected by the Care Inspectorate and Education Scotland.

I hope that that goes some way towards answering the member鈥檚 question.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

No鈥攖hat would be its opinion.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I am sorry, Mr Doris鈥擨 missed the beginning of your question.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Before court proceedings in which a suspected offence involves children, those children, including victims and witnesses, will benefit from automatic reporting restrictions. A court can currently dispense with reporting restrictions only if it is in the interests of justice, and the extended protection is important because the implications of a child鈥檚 being identified are similar and significant at any stage of proceedings. Identifying a child during a police investigation undermines the protection offered by the presumption of anonymity during subsequent court proceedings.

In direct response to the minister鈥檚 question鈥擨 am sorry; I mean Mr Macpherson鈥檚 question鈥攚e are considering that. I am sorry; I was thinking of a few weeks past.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

We are not complacent. We understand that new investment is needed to implement the bill鈥檚 measures, as there are costs associated with them. We have worked with partners to quantify the financial memorandum, which outlines about 拢11 million a year of additional spend. We are listening to views that are coming forward at stage 1, and we will consider where further work can be done as scrutiny progresses. I am more than happy to keep the committee updated on that. I will appear before the Finance and Public Administration Committee next week to discuss some of the finances in more detail.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I think that you originally asked about whether the last bed approach will be increased. We do not require legislative change for that鈥攖hat will be taken forward but not necessarily through the bill and its implications.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

As I said, the situation tends to fluctuate. I am more than happy to write to the committee with more information on the exact costings around that as we move forward, if the committee would like that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

I can provide a brief response to that. Yes, absolutely, the Government will continue to assess any potential differences in provisions between the two bills. As noted in the policy memorandum for the bill, the Scottish Government committed in its 2022-23 programme for government to introduce a bill that will make provision granting a statutory right of automatic lifelong anonymity to complainers in sexual offence cases.

The Victims, Witnesses, and Justice Reform (Scotland) Bill delivers on that commitment by providing an automatic lifelong right to anonymity to the victims of sexual offences and other offences of limited scope that share the same underlying concerns. It should be noted that the provisions governing restrictions on the publication of identifying information, in so far as they extend to victims of those offences in this bill and certain other limited offences, are subject to change in the future, given the planned provisions on automatic anonymity for complainers, which Mr Macpherson has referred to.

For assurance, we will continue to assess any differences in provisions between the two bills as each one continues to undergo parliamentary scrutiny.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

Yes, that could certainly be considered.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care and Justice) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 3 May 2023

Natalie Don-Innes

If there was a suggestion that handcuffs should be used to protect the child or other people, that would be a decision for the people involved. I do not know whether I am best placed to say yes or no, because I would not be dealing with the incident, but I can understand that there might be instances in which restraint would be necessary. However, we would want to ensure that that was the case only in extreme or exceptional circumstances and that it was done appropriately.