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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 1231 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

Yes, I absolutely recognise that. I looked into various other forms of public trust models, such as the one that is used for NatureScot. There are models but they do not relate to specific statutory duties.

I will bring in Nico MacKenzie-Juetten, who might be able to expand on the finances of hospices a little further.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

That comes back to a lot of what we have spoken about already this morning. There is a clear concern from the Government that legislating on the curriculum sets a precedent that contradicts the approach around flexibility and autonomy for school leaders and teachers that Mr Kidd alluded to. I have been very clear that I would be willing to work with Liz Smith. There could be flexibility around the length of the trip and, as I have already suggested, the content, because we do not necessarily know that that outdoor residential experience is what every child or young person requires, and other experiences could be equally beneficial. Moving forward and ensuring flexibility and choice for the children and young people is key.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

Absolutely. I have probably touched on some of this already this morning, so you will forgive me if I repeat myself.

Perhaps the first point to make relates to the requirement in the bill for the Scottish Government to

“pay education authorities and ... grant-aided schoolsâ€

sufficient amounts to fund the new duties imposed on them. What those sufficient amounts actually equate to is unknown—in that regard, I would also just point to some of the discussion that we have already had this morning.

The bill’s financial memorandum significantly underestimates the overall potential cost. As I have said, the Scottish Government has estimated that it could cost anywhere from £24.3 million to £40.6 million, but there is still a certain degree of unknown around that in terms of the number of—

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I do not expect this to be cost neutral, and there could be investment in different areas. I do not have the figure in front of me. Indeed, what I have said is that I would be willing to work with Ms Smith on other options for the bill or, if the bill proceeds, any amendments to it. I do not have a figure to hand at the moment for our approach to outdoor learning—I am just highlighting that it can come at a very low cost.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I have already alluded to capital costs. I do not think that the Government would be totally excused from bringing in private investment or professional learning. There will be costs attached, but I do not know whether they reach the numbers that we are talking about in relation to the bill.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

As I said, I am interested in the scrutiny of the bill. The Cabinet Secretary for Finance and Local Government and I look forward to seeing the outcome of that scrutiny and the associated financial memorandum, which will inform our considerations in that regard.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

For statutory duties, I do not believe so, but I will bring in Nico McKenzie-Juetten to speak to that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Schools (Residential Outdoor Education) (Scotland) Bill

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I think that it is legitimate to say that we have made a huge investment into play parks and they have been massively transformed. Speaking from personal experience, I see how busy our play parks are on a daily basis. They create new and better environments for our children and young people to experience outdoor learning, from the age of babies and toddlers, right through to teens.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I do not believe so. The regulations received strong support during the scrutiny of and discussions on the 2020 act, so it was felt that consultation was not required and would perhaps cause further delays.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Subordinate Legislation

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Natalie Don-Innes

I am sorry, but I do not understand the question.