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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 20 June 2025
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Displaying 1071 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

On visas, an example that best illustrates the position is to compare the arrival numbers of just over 4,500 in Scotland with those in the Republic of Ireland. The countries are of a similar size and in a similar geographical location. One has a visa requirement; the other does not. Ireland has more than 10 times the number of arrivals of displaced Ukrainians. That helps to illustrate the barrier that visa requirements are putting in the way of people coming to Scotland and, for that matter, to the rest of the UK.

You are absolutely right to underline the challenges that Ukraine鈥檚 neighbouring countries are facing. A couple of weeks ago, for a different reason, I was in Germany, where I was able to visit community groups in Offenburg, in the German state of Baden-W眉rttemberg, that are supporting displaced Ukrainians in the area. Baden-W眉rttemberg alone has welcomed more than 100,000 displaced Ukrainians. There are real challenges with those numbers, understandably.

Similarly, when I was in Poland last week, it was clear that the third sector input there is massive. There is also support in place from local and national Government. However, there are clear challenges in the neighbouring countries.

Given what I saw in the disused shopping centre that supports displaced Ukrainians, where women, children and their pets are living cheek by jowl on camp beds in unbearable heat, it is incumbent on us all to do everything that we can to support as many people as possible鈥擴krainians and others in similar situations who are fleeing conflict鈥攖o come to Scotland .

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

We have been doing a huge amount already, but there is clearly more that can be done. I was at the solidarity rally a week past Sunday, which started at the Russian consulate and ended up outside the Scottish Parliament. The support on the streets was incredible. Like you, as I go back and forth in my constituency of Airdrie and Shotts and around Scotland, I see Ukrainian flags and colours everywhere, as Mr Mankovskyi mentioned. I am wearing the Ukrainian tartan, as is the convener.

We are doing everything that we can in ways that feel small. However, as Mr Mankovskyi articulated, every small gesture鈥攚hen we use the hashtag #standwithUkraine or the phrase 鈥淪lava Ukraini!鈥濃攎atters to the people I spoke to in and around Poland and to those I speak to in Scotland. The situation is incredibly challenging, as we have heard. People are worried about their family members, their property and the future of their nation, so everything that we can possibly do to support them and show solidarity is worth doing.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I understand all those concerns. We do not want people in hotel rooms any longer than necessary. We are working with local authorities to build the capacity of the matching service and have committed resource to that. We are in constant dialogue with our local authority partners to ensure that there is as much clarity as possible around how that process works, that we get feedback and that we can ensure that there is flexibility around local matching. Where possible, that will allow the local authority teams to use their local knowledge to take matches forward more quickly. I am looking for us to do anything and everything to ensure that things get moving as quickly as possible.

There is no judgment from me over what Wales has done over the past couple of weeks, because I understand the pressures that they will have been under, but it shows the challenge that we face. The challenge is a result of the scheme being an immigration one rather than a formal resettlement one鈥攖he two approaches have different levels of support. However, we will certainly do everything that we can to ensure that we are responding appropriately.

You are absolutely right that, even in hotel accommodation, people start to put down roots and make community connections and their children start to make friend networks. That is great, but that makes it challenging if there is a need to move people on to other areas. We want to be as sympathetic as we can be to that issue, but it shows why it is important that we get the matching service operational as quickly as possible, so that we are able to provide people with a settled community that allows them to put down those roots as quickly as possible. I am alive to all those issues. We are constantly monitoring the situation. We are in constant dialogue with our colleagues in local government and the local authority teams, and will continue to provide the support that they feel is necessary to ensure that we get people into longer-term secure accommodation as quickly as possible.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I am happy to discuss any concerns that Highland Council or any other local authority has about the challenges that it faces in the longer term. We work with local government organisations such as the Society of Local Authority Chief Executives and Senior Managers and COSLA to ensure that there is long-term planning in place. I am grateful to local government for the work that it is doing, and if there is anything more that the Scottish Government can do to ensure that local government is able to support the system that we have in place, I would be more than happy to hear about that. We will work with local government to ensure that we are providing the warm Scottish welcome that we and our constituents expect but, more importantly, that is expected and deserved by the people who are arriving from Ukraine.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I am grateful to you, convener, for sending that particular case to me and for asking that question, because it gives me the opportunity to once again say in no uncertain terms that nobody in Scotland needs to use social media to find private matches. That is the whole point of the supersponsor scheme鈥攊t makes the process safer. We do not need people running the risk presented by well-meaning social media pages that offer matching or re-matching services. Those are not needed in Scotland.

The Scottish Government will match people, and if a match breaks down, they should contact their welcome hub, local resettlement team, the Scottish Government or their MSP, but they do not need to use social media sites. I have major safeguarding concerns about those sites, and I have articulated to UK ministers my concerns about that, the prevalence of such sites elsewhere in the UK and the fact that they are posing a major risk to the homes for Ukraine scheme elsewhere. I cannot stress enough the fact that people should not use social media to find private matches. That is not necessary in Scotland.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I would challenge that. There are areas where that is happening. We have examples of local authorities putting in place travel schemes to ensure that people are able to move around. We have already talked about the travel provision that is available, and the committee heard about some of that from Mr Mankovskyi.

However, if COSLA has raised issues, I imagine that those are issues that we discuss regularly in our meetings. If the committee wanted to write to me with any specific issues that it would like more information on, which we have not been able to provide clarity on, because the list is too long to read out today, I would be more than happy to respond in detail in a timeous fashion. I give that commitment to the convener and to Ms Boyack.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I am happy to address Mr Cameron鈥檚 statement, which, as he has articulated, follows on from the questions of Ms Boyack and Mr Golden. I will bring in Will Tyler-Greig to address the issue of communications with Highland Council.

I reiterate that the Scottish Government, local government and our third sector partners are doing everything that we can. We are working together to drive more pace in the matching service. I have articulated some of the challenges鈥攚hich Mr Cameron agrees exist鈥攊n relation to the resource-intensive nature of the process, the discussions that are required about whether expressions of interest are still live and what the expectations are of people, whether that is people from Ukraine or hosts in Scotland. That takes time.

As I said, I am keen鈥攅specially following my visit to Poland鈥攖hat we redouble our efforts to ensure that the process proceeds at pace and that we do everything possible to make it a success and avoid the need to provide a pause, as has been necessary in Wales.

Will Tyler-Greig will be able to talk about the direct communications that there have been with local authorities.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I support in principle everything that Mark Ruskell has said. Following my previous appearance at the committee, when Paul Sweeney attended as a substitute member, I had a productive meeting with him and Bob Doris on that very issue, alongside Transport Scotland officials and others. We are trying to work our way through it and find a system that would avoid the need for complex legislation. There are complexities in extending the scheme, and in ensuring that we can identify who we would be extending it to and how that would work.

We are trying to find a way through that situation, and we have great sympathy for the proposal. I very much appreciate the work that has been done by local authorities across Scotland, which Mr Ruskell mentioned. As well as Stirling, many others across Scotland, including Glasgow and Edinburgh, are doing fantastic work to provide transport support.

I would not dismiss the entitlement that is already available. Not long after that committee meeting, I met Mr Mankovskyi and we discussed that very issue. I explained to him the entitlement that people already have because of their age, for example. At that stage, the entitlement that is already available had not been communicated to the Ukrainian community. That entitlement does not cover everybody; it covers just over half of the people, and we are looking at what we can do to ensure that the other half also have support.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I did.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I have full sympathy with that. When I was in Krakow, I met Alun Ruznik, who is originally from Bosnia and fled the war in Sarajevo when he was 13 and his family moved to Slovenia. He moved around the world for work, feeling very transient, and ended up working as a chef in Barcelona.

At the outbreak of the war in Ukraine, he felt a calling to do something to help. As he knew Slovenia, he thought that returning there would be his way of doing that. Having got to Krakow, with a seven-hour stopover before his next train, he asked around and ended up at the world food kitchen outside the disused shopping centre that I mentioned. He is there now, alongside displaced Ukrainians, and is sleeping on a camp bed in the accommodation that has been provided and volunteering his services. He is an incredible man, and I found speaking to him really emotional. I pay tribute to the work that he and others from around the world are doing to help on the ground.

That feeling of transience鈥攐f someone not knowing where their home actually is, as a result of having fled one, two or however many conflict zones and having to find and rebuild their life鈥攎ust be incredibly challenging. That is why I am so determined that we do everything that we can both to provide people with initial sanctuary and safety in Scotland and to give them the support that they need to enable them to rebuild their lives and ensure that they can call Scotland their home for as long as possible.

I will bring in Will Tyler-Greig to give more detail on the worker support centre to which we have provided funding. It is important to ensure that people have access to employment support, to give them the resource and the independence that they desire. From the conversations that I have had with Yevhen Mankovskyi over many months, it is clear that the desire for independence and their own sustainability is very strong among people arriving from Ukraine. Sometimes, it is not possible. I understand that people are arriving with horrendous trauma. In my constituency, I have seen children for whom that has had a profound impact. However, for people who are able to and who want to achieve that, we want to ensure that we are doing everything possible to provide such support.

I am keen to bring in Will to provide more detail on the worker support centre and integration support.