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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 21 June 2025
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Displaying 1071 contributions

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Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

If I were to put an estimation on that, I do not think that it would be far away from what the committee has already discussed. It is not a situation that we want to see happening. We do not want people to be in hotel rooms for any longer than is absolutely necessary, for all the reasons that Mr Mankovskyi articulated, including the pressures on families, and mothers with young children in particular. I perfectly understand that and absolutely sympathise. I cannot imagine the challenge of living out of a hotel room.

The committee can be reassured that the Scottish Government, working with local government and our third sector partners, is doing everything that it can. Following my visit to Poland, having seen how people are living there, I have placed an even greater emphasis on ensuring that we are doing everything that we can. We are leaving no stone unturned in exploring how we can commit the resource, both human and financial, to ensure that we get the matching service moving as quickly as possible.

A reasonable number of matches has already been made; the matching service works. We just need to make sure that it happens as quickly as possible. There are different reasons why there is a challenge there. Some people who offered their properties have had a change in circumstances, and those conversations have to happen. It is a resource-intensive process to go through those discussions to ensure that we understand people鈥檚 circumstances.

I would be happy to speak to anybody who feels that they have additional ideas about ways of ensuring that we are able to address the situation and get the process moving as quickly as possible.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I understand that perfectly. Most people arriving from Ukraine have had their lives turned upside down. Often, their property has been destroyed and their finances have been ripped apart, sometimes to get here in the first place. They face huge challenges, and, clearly, we want to do everything that we can to provide the support that is required to allow them to re-establish their lives. Transport is one element, and we are investing in many others to do everything possible to ensure that they are able to re-establish their lives in Scotland for as long as they want to call Scotland their home.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I would be interested to see what further guidance Highland Council is looking for, because, with respect, we have provided significant guidance on how we expect the system to work and are looking to ensure that we are working in partnership with local government. If there are concerns that it wishes to raise, we want to hear them and work through them as quickly as possible.

Similarly, I am in constant dialogue with COSLA. I had a meeting with COSLA鈥檚 president on Monday and, two weeks previously, I had a meeting with COSLA to try to find a way to ensure that we get the matching service working as quickly as possible. If the committee wants to write to me with any specific questions, I would be more than happy to write back timeously to ensure that you are given confidence that we are taking all these issues incredibly seriously and that we are working through all the concerns and questions that have been raised with us.

The first point that you acknowledged was around the impact that visiting Poland has had on me and the determination that I have that we do everything that we can and commit as much resource as we can鈥攆rom the Scottish Government, local government and the third sector鈥攖o ensure that we are giving people arriving from Ukraine and other war zones the opportunity to make Scotland their safe and supportive home for as long as they need it.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

There are a number of areas on which it is important to provide clarity. First, I think that I will have a conversation about this with Mr Mankovskyi later, but some of the challenge is to do with people understanding how far away they are from the social security support for which they qualify actually arriving with them. As Mr Cameron will be well aware, part of the issue is that a five-week wait is in-built for universal credit, and we all know the challenges that result from that. I do not think that we will resolve that particular situation today, but that in-built five-week wait poses major challenges for people in Scotland and the rest of the UK, and for those who are arriving from Ukraine. That is another argument for why the UK Government needs to resolve the structural issues with universal credit, which I campaigned hard on in a previous life.

Mr Tyler-Greig has already raised the second issue that I want to raise. The Scottish welfare fund is available for people who arrive from Ukraine, particularly to fill the gap with the five-week wait for universal credit from the DWP. We have provided support and guidance to local authorities to ensure that that money is made available to people who arrive from Ukraine.

Obviously, we are doing everything that we can through Social Security Scotland for people who have more complex issues and entitlements to Scottish social security to ensure that the range of entitlements that are available in Scotland is articulated to the welcome hubs, and that that is all progressed and processed as people arrive and go through the hubs.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

Dr Allan is correct that the UK is the only European nation that is requiring visas for those fleeing the war in Ukraine. We have to ask why that is the case, when every other European nation has opened its doors, has allowed people to enter and has put people before process.

I referenced Ireland because of its geographical location. Mr Mankovskyi articulated very well the fact that people want to stay close to Ukraine, which is understandable, because they have family reasons and property that they want to check. However, some people are perhaps looking for different opportunities, and are willing to travel further afield. We can see the difference in arrival numbers between Scotland and Ireland, and the major difference there is to do with the visa requirements. Ireland has welcomed 10 times the number of people that Scotland has. That should embarrass us all, because we all have a collective responsibility to do everything possible from a humanitarian point of view to support people who are displaced from Ukraine.

As I did when I was in Poland and Germany, I commend the efforts of the communities in other parts of Europe that are opening their doors, as I commend people in Scotland and the rest of the UK who are looking to do everything that they can to welcome people here.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

That is a fair challenge, and I wish that I could give a definitive answer to it, but I cannot. Bob Doris and Paul Sweeney asked for the entitlement to be extended to asylum seekers and refugees in general, not just displaced Ukrainians. We are trying to ensure that, if possible, we provide something on a national basis, and that is where the additional complexity will lie. However, I give a commitment to write to the committee and to Mr Ruskell, given his interest in the area, to provide an update on how we are progressing with that.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

Yes, I am aware of the circumstances. That particular weekend, we had challenges with temporary accommodation and ensuring that we had availability for people who we knew were going to be arriving into Edinburgh, which is, predominantly, the arrival point for the whole of Scotland. We asked some of the displaced Ukrainians, who were in a hotel in Livingston, whether they would be willing to move elsewhere, and a bus was put on for that to happen. Some people still travelled. There was a regrettable incident, and that issue caused additional harm and stress to those who were potentially travelling.

It is important to stress that lessons have been learned from that about the need for all of us to ensure that we communicate as well as possible, not just with displaced Ukrainians but with those who support them. I have already articulated, as has the committee, the challenges in Edinburgh and the local area and the need to ensure that there is a whole of Scotland approach. Different parts of Scotland provide different opportunities, and we need to make sure that we articulate to people why we sometimes need to move them.

However, I think that the necessity for such moves is much reduced, given the situation that we are now in. I want to reduce that even further by ensuring that we progress the matching service as quickly as possible and allow people to get into longer-term accommodation.

10:45  

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I hope that that provides further clarity, especially on the funding issue. Local authorities are only now getting the claim forms. We have had to provide letters of comfort, particularly around the 拢200 payment. That highlights the challenges that we have faced in knowing and confirming what will be happening as regards funding from a UK Government perspective.

We are working closely with UK Government ministers鈥攊n that regard, the relationship is positive. However, there are often challenging conversations about ensuring that the rhetoric is matched with action. We need to ensure that the funding scenario is resolved at a greater pace, because that is at least part of local government鈥檚 concern.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

I thank the committee for having me along again this morning. As the convener mentioned, last week, I visited Poland to see first hand how it has responded to the arrival of more than 3 million displaced people from Ukraine, and to show our solidarity with the Polish people who are supporting them. When I was there, I met international aid organisations and the Polish Government, and was able to see how the 拢4 million of financial aid that we are providing has made a difference.

I also met inspirational leaders from civil society, who are supporting people from the moment that they arrive in Poland. I met volunteers at UNICEF鈥檚 blue dot centre. Blue dot centres are safe places at key transit points that provide families and children with critical information and services. UNICEF has used some of the 拢1 million from the Scottish Government to fund 24 blue dot centres in countries neighbouring Ukraine where there are a high number of displaced people.

One part of my visit will stay with me for a long time. At the start of the war, an unoccupied, disused shopping centre in Krakow was repurposed to welcome people who had fled Ukraine. It provides temporary accommodation and food, alongside support, mainly for women and children. Donations of clothing and footwear are put on display鈥攍ike they would be in a department store鈥攇iving people dignity when choosing the clothes that they need. It was incredibly hard for me to see how women and children in particular are living in that refugee centre. The people around them are absolutely doing their best to make it the best place possible for them. However, seeing, feeling and smelling first hand the difficult situation that the Ukrainian people are facing has given me even greater determination to ensure that we in Scotland are doing everything that we can to provide the support that people arriving here need and deserve.

It is clear to me that Scottish support for agencies on the ground in the region is still very much needed, but I am also determined to do everything that we possibly can to support Ukrainians while Scotland is their home. One of the major lessons from my visit is that there is a need for local and national Government in Scotland to fully utilise the power of the third sector and engage volunteer networks to support displaced people to settle in our communities. I am immensely proud that we in Scotland have opened our homes to people fleeing this awful war, but it is clear that our work is far from done.

You have already heard from my friend the consul general about the work that is on-going and the challenges that we have ahead. When we met in March, Scotland was preparing to welcome displaced people. We were determinedly pressing the UK Government to waive visa requirements. At that time, very few people had arrived in Scotland. We have moved on considerably since then. Since I last gave evidence to the committee, more than 4,000 people with a Scottish sponsor have arrived. The Scottish Government has sponsored around 70 per cent of those arrivals.

We have provided a safe and quick route for people to find safety in Scotland. Our local authorities have been working hard, supported by third sector partners, to do all that we can to work within the UK Government visa scheme to welcome and support people arriving from Ukraine.

A national matching service, delivered by the Convention of Scottish Local Authorities, has been set up to match people arriving under the supersponsor scheme to longer-term accommodation and make use of the generous offer of the use of their homes that has been made by the people of Scotland.

My concerns about the UK Government鈥檚 bureaucratic approach to the humanitarian crisis are well documented. We continue to press it to waive visas, put people before process and provide local authorities with the funding that they need to support people to rebuild their lives.

Last week, the Welsh Government announced that it was pausing its supersponsor scheme. I am very sympathetic to its situation, and I know that that will have been a very hard decision to reach. However, that underlines the challenges that we are all facing in this situation.

The First Minister has made it clear that her intention is for Scotland to welcome a fair and proportionate number of displaced people from Ukraine who arrive in the UK. We are not planning to pause the Scottish supersponsor scheme. Our energy and focus are on building up the national matching service and providing people with longer-term accommodation and integration support to make Scotland their home for as long as they need it to be.

I am happy to take questions.

Constitution, Europe, External Affairs and Culture Committee

Crisis in Ukraine

Meeting date: 16 June 2022

Neil Gray

It is important that I stress the incredible on-going effort from third sector partners and local authorities in Scotland. The work that they are doing is phenomenal and self-starting. You have heard from Yevhen Mankovskyi about some of the direct support that is going to Ukraine and the impact that that is having.

The third sector in Poland is far more involved at the initial welcoming stage and is doing a lot more on the ground, whereas in Scotland matters are being co-ordinated by local government with support from the third sector. I am very grateful to the Scottish Refugee Council and others for all the work that they are doing in that regard.

On what more our third sector partners might be able to do, we need to ensure that the full team Scotland approach can be deployed. We are all facing a huge challenge. We all want to overcome that and ensure that our approach works incredibly well for those who are arriving from Ukraine.

The other lesson that I have taken from the visit to Poland is that our Scottish Government support is leading to tangible results鈥攖hat was clear to me. I visited the blue dot centre; Caritas, which we work with; the Scottish Catholic International Aid Fund, which we have funded; and the Red Cross centres. I saw the work that they are doing to support people as they arrive in Poland, and I know what they are doing on the ground in Ukraine as well.

From that, it was clear to me that our support is being well used and that, sadly, there is a job to do, both for large non-governmental organisations that we have supported and for smaller NGOs. Some of the smaller NGOs, such as Open Krakow, which is led by Maria Wojtacha, are incredible. I take my hat off to them for the support that they are providing alongside accommodation and for the way in which they are giving dignity to people in a really challenging situation. I was able to articulate that and pass on my thanks to them for the work that they are doing.

It was a useful trip for me in terms of taking back lessons that we are already trying to deploy in the response in Scotland.

10:00