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It is key that—this goes back to the point that Mr Balfour made—when the legislation is in place, it is properly resourced. It is clear that one of the issues is to do with identifying where the bottleneck is. In producing the financial memorandum, we asked local authorities to give their best estimates at the time, and the financial memorandum was based on those. As we get into further engagement, one of the key things will be to identify what the actual resource requirement is. Mr Balfour mentioned Edinburgh as an example. If members have identified particular circumstances or local authorities in that regard, they can feed them in to the team and we can pick up those issues.

We need to ensure that the legislation is properly resourced. It has been proven that money that is spent on prevention saves us money down the line, so it is key that we resource the legislation properly. We also need to identify the bottlenecks. The position in a rural area could be different from the position in other areas, and the Borders has completely different circumstances from the Highlands. Some areas might have similar experiences, but it is important to identify that. The more engagement we have with local authorities and the deeper our understanding of that is, the better. First, it will prevent people from becoming homeless. Secondly, it is a spend-to-save initiative, because it will prevent people from going through the process. The resourcing is incredibly important.

I would not say instructed, because one of the key things—whether it is about health and social care or the Scottish Prison Service—is working with them as partners. It is about learning from the lived experience of people who have had to go through the Scottish Prison Service or the NHS. It is very much about co-design and co-production. You were keen to talk about that in relation to the national care service. For me, building that together and building on best practice is the really important part of it, and we meet the Scottish Prison Service regularly to do that.

The challenge within the organisation is to build on the culture that is already there. The Prison Service is really keen to build on that and work as partners and it has been speaking to us not just about what it does within its organisation, but about how it can work closely with, for example, the NHS. It is very much about co-design and co-production.

Yes. I meet the SFHA regularly to discuss a number of issues. When I met the housing associations in Easterhouse a couple of weeks ago, they talked about their roles in development and wider involvement in the community. They talked about their role in providing advice, and domestic abuse was an area that they picked up. We are engaging with them to try to maximise what already happens in their work—for example, with Glasgow City Council. The work of housing associations is one example, but there are also organisations such as the Wheatley Group, which has more resource and income and is working very closely on what will come through under the bill.

It is very much about trying to get a uniform approach. How do we make sure that the smaller housing associations have the necessary training? The SFHA has said that some housing associations are trying to pool some of their resources round around the domestic abuse part, because that is really important.

For a lot of housing associations, that is relatively new. However, it very much came across from the SFHA that it is really keen to make sure that it plays its part. I will continue to discuss that with the SFHA. As I said, it is easier for the likes of the Wheatley Group, for example, which has the resource to do that, but we are very much looking at pooling teams in order to provide that.

I visited four Borders registered social landlords that work closely together on the domestic abuse advice that they give. This is very much about building on that work. I do not want to say that this is new work, because they have been working on it, but they are all keen to focus on it. Therefore, it is about looking at how we can maximise the resource that they have for that. There are good examples such as those Borders housing associations, which work closely together to ensure that they pass on information.

It was a similar situation with CIH and the discussions that I have had with CIH about the training that is required in the housing sector itself. It had mentioned and discussed training on domestic abuse. Those discussions are on-going in CIH and the whole housing sector in order to build that up.

That builds on what we already have, because the NHS obviously operates with the local council at a particular time. I have seen cases where that has happened—for example, in work with the Simon Community to pass on cases. Therefore, that process already exists and this is building on that. It is not the case that that process does not exist at the moment.

The key thing, then, is to find out whether there is somebody who can come in and identify the homelessness. This is all about making sure that there is a procedure in place to deal with that, so we are building on what we already have in that regard.

At our meeting with the NHS last week, that is exactly what we talked about—the guidance and training on that particular point. These are existing procedures that we are trying to build on—in other words, this already happens—so we are not just starting this process now. That is the key thing. We have that feedback from people with lived experience, so the process is about making sure that the nurse or whoever is there is aware of the prevention duties. By that, I mean whether they are identifying that a person is at risk of homelessness on that particular night, knows whom they need to speak to about that and acts on that. It is not just a case of passing it on to the local authority.

Catriona MacKean might want to add something on that point.

If we need to revise it, we will. That is key. We will continue to engage with local authorities. When I meet local authorities, including the City of Edinburgh Council, we have that level of discussion. If the City of Edinburgh Council and other local authorities say that such a thing is happening, we will, of course, look to revise the financial memorandum, if necessary, at that point. It is an on-going exercise. A key thing to stress is that we engaged with local authorities consistently prior to the financial memorandum being published. However, if we need to look at it, we will do so and will consider bringing something forward.

I am happy to discuss the matter offline with you. I discuss it with local authorities all the time, but I am happy to consider it again if that is the information that is coming through.

I am happy to take that point away and discuss it with colleagues. I take your point and totally understand it, so I am happy to come back to you on that in writing.

I have engaged with Scottish Land & Estates on a number of occasions and the issue has come up, so we have discussed it. I have probably met it on four, five or six occasions in the past year or so, and we have engaged on the issue. SLE will back up that I have engaged with it on the issue.

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Paul McLennan has identified an error in his contribution and provided the following corrections.

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At col 7, paragraph 6—

Original text—

One of the key things that I asked for when I came into post, 15 or 16 months ago, was the setting up of a ministerial group on homelessness. Ten ministers are taking part in that, and it has already met four times.

Corrected text—

One of the key things that I asked for when I came into post, 15 or 16 months ago, was the setting up of a ministerial group on homelessness. Nine ministers are taking part in that, and it has already met four times.

At col 8, paragraph 1—

Original text—

We will continue to make sure that opportunities in policy development and budgetary processes are maximised. The group has 10 ministers, including me, and we talk about that specific issue.

Corrected text—

We will continue to make sure that opportunities in policy development and budgetary processes are maximised. The group has nine ministers, including me, and we talk about that specific issue.

At col 13, paragraph 5—

Original text—

I talked earlier about why we have 10 ministers on the ministerial oversight group. In some of the more complex homelessness cases, four or five specialist areas can be involved.

Corrected text—

I talked earlier about why we have nine ministers on the ministerial oversight group. In some of the more complex homelessness cases, four or five specialist areas can be involved.

Can you clarify whether Shelter was referring to the broader housing system or the homelessness system specifically?

As you will know from your experience, there are lots of homeless cases and people tend not to arrive with just the one problem; they can have a whole range of issues. If you are talking about a complex case, two months is not long enough to deal with that situation. Six months gives us an opportunity to identify the possibility of preventing homelessness at an earlier stage. Two months is an extremely short period of time in which to deal with that. In speaking to stakeholders across Scotland in the past number of months, I have found that they welcome the change from two months to six months.

Part of it is about having a greater understanding of the role of the police and the health board in trying to prevent someone from arriving in a homelessness situation in the first place, and part of it is about time. Two months is not long enough to deal with a complex case. If you have a range of meetings, two months is not long enough. It just is not long enough, both in my experience and in speaking to colleagues across Scotland about it.