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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 25 December 2025
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Displaying 1379 contributions

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Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 17 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Do you think that the regulations should be set out in the bill?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I do not know whether Maria Galli or Kate Thompson wishes to come in.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

It does. Before I come to David Mackie to ask about the hearings system, I want to highlight a key point that I discussed when I met Who Cares? Scotland. As someone who represents East Lothian, which is a mix of urban and rural, I think that it is probably easier for someone to access an advocacy service in Edinburgh or Glasgow than it is for someone in the Highlands. There is not a one-size-fits-all approach to provision.

What are your thoughts on that? Independent advocacy is important, but provision needs to be as universal as possible across the whole of Scotland, and that will not be as easy in remote areas.

I will get your thoughts on that and then come to David Mackie on the hearings system.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I want to touch on advocacy, which I know that Pam Duncan-Glancy was going to move on to. I do not know whether you heard the evidence in the previous evidence session. My background is 15 years as a councillor, during which I dealt with situations involving kids with care experience; advocacy was a really important part of their journey, not only for them but for their families. Section 4 of the bill talks about new

“rights of access to care experience advocacy services”,

with that right shaped by secondary legislation. What would that secondary legislation look like?

The other key thing is that this is almost an urban versus rural discussion, because advocacy services are probably much easier to access in urban areas than in rural ones. When we spoke to the sheriff in the previous evidence session, we found that this also related to section 18, which is on advocacy in the hearings system. Is there confusion on that point? What are your thoughts on that?

Claire Burns, I will come to you on that question and then open it up to anybody else who wants to come in.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I want to build on some of the discussions that we have had about advocacy services and to delve a little bit deeper into that issue. Having been a councillor for 15 years and having spoken to families and care-experienced children, I know that that is really important, but it is now complex.

Section 4 of the bill mentions

“rights of access to care experience advocacy services.”

It is a complex area, as we know, and there are also advocacy services for children’s hearings, which are covered in section 18 of the bill. Several organisations, including The Promise Scotland, have commented to an extent on the new rights of access to care experience advocacy services that will be shaped by secondary legislation. What will those services look like in practice? Secondary legislation will be an important part of determining that. How will those services interact with section 18 of the bill, which covers advocacy in the hearings system? Given that we have started to discuss the system, it is an important point.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

That is helpful, thank you.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Very briefly, before she comes in, how do we measure how effective the advocacy process has been? I think that we asked our previous witnesses about that, too. It is fine to have access to that, but how do we measure its effectiveness?

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

I come to David Mackie on the hearings system specifically, and then I will go to Fiona Duncan.

A key point is how we measure the effectiveness of advocacy. It is one thing to have it in place, but how do we measure its effectiveness? Advocacy in the hearings system is important, so I would like to hear your thoughts on that.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Fiona Duncan, I will just come to you to talk about the points that Fraser McKinlay and David Mackie have made. I am an advocate of advocacy services and, having seen them work in practice, I know that they can make a huge difference to where children are in a process that can be extremely troubling for them. What are your thoughts on that? Perhaps you could come back to the point about how we measure the effectiveness of advocacy.

Education, Children and Young People Committee

Children (Care, Care Experience and Services Planning) (Scotland) Bill: Stage 1

Meeting date: 10 September 2025

Paul McLennan

Thanks, Claire. Does anybody else want to come in on that point?