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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 6 August 2025
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Displaying 1237 contributions

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Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

Yes, and you and I had a brief discussion about that. It was discussed at the event and various proposals are being developed in the sector and I am sure that the Government will pick up on that. I am happy to take that point away and raise it with colleagues.

I had an interest in solar thermal when I met Solar Energy Scotland prior to becoming minister. The technology has changed and the payback time has reduced. There are different forms of solar energy and different ways in which it can help to tackle climate change. The sector will continue to develop. One of the key things for me going forward is to make sure that we are flexible enough to engage with different technologies as they move on in the next five, 10, 15 and 20 years, whether that be for retrofitting or for new properties being built. We have seen how much technology has changed in the past five years.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

Yes, I can. I will bring in Stephen Garvin in a second to talk about this in a bit more detail, but I have already mentioned that the Institution of Structural Engineers—that is its long name—is looking at developing additional guidance specific to the issue of RAAC in housing. Moreover, the Royal Institution of Chartered Surveyors is preparing a consumer guide that will provide advice to landlords, tenants and home owners, and that guide is expected shortly. The Institution of Structural Engineers is also preparing guidance to support landlords, tenants and home owners in making informed decisions on how they manage RAAC in residential properties, and that work is due to be completed later in the year.

We are engaging and liaising with RICS and IStructE in supporting those initiatives, and we are having on-going engagement with affected landlords through the Scottish Government-led RAAC in housing sub-group, which Stephen Garvin has touched on. I will bring in Stephen, as he is involved much more than I am in those discussions.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

I will bring in Alan Johnston to respond to that question, but I have a response to it, too.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

The Grenfell response has come out, but there is work beyond that. I am happy to keep the committee up to date, if members think that that would be relevant.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

I will bring in Stephen Garvin on the other point, which is the most important to come out of the Grenfell inquiry.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

Before Alan comes in, it is important to note the broader concept of fire engineers’ work in relation to Grenfell.

I ask Alan to cover the specific work that we are engaging on, because SBAs are about more than just fire engineering.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

The Government is committed to implementing Awaab’s law for private tenants as well. There are existing powers, which we must ensure are used to the maximum extent. It is part of the engagement with the private rented sector. I have raised the issue with the Scottish Association of Landlords on a number of occasions, so it is aware of our commitment in that regard, and we will engage with the organisation.

I am happy to come back on the two points relating to social housing and to the private rented sector, but we are committed to having Awaab’s law for the private rented sector as well.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

There are powers in the existing legislation, but they are not always used. One of the key things is to ensure that we use existing powers. If we bring in Awaab’s law—as I said, we are committed to introducing Awaab’s law for private tenants as well—we must do so in consultation. For individual landlords, there will be a slightly different approach to how we do that. We are discussing that with the Scottish Association of Landlords, including what its role is and how we ensure that individual landlords are aware of the requirements.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

I will speak to the more general point and then come on to the specifics. The Government recognises the challenges that tenants are facing. I will bring Stephen Garvin in in a second. Our broader approach to RAAC includes housing, but it is about the wider issue across Scotland—there have been a couple of issues with it in my local authority, including Preston Lodge high school and the Brunton theatre in Musselburgh. We have taken a much broader approach than the UK Government and we have looked at the NHS, schools and right across the sector; I will bring Stephen Garvin in on that point. That faced the challenges, and we worked very closely with the regulator on that point, and I was on a building safety group that was chaired by the cabinet secretary.

10:00  

Obviously, we expect all social landlords to ensure that their tenants are accommodated safely. There are a number of issues. I have engaged with Aberdeen City Council, for example, and West Lothian Council, over their approach to RAAC. In Aberdeen, obviously, it was slightly different. RAAC can impact on properties in different ways. In Aberdeen, the properties will have to be demolished. There is a mix of private and social tenure. We have had numerous meetings. I am heading up to Aberdeen at the beginning of May to meet tenants and residents to discuss that point. We worked very closely with the people at Aberdeen City Council. Because they had to decant very quickly, we have had to engage with them very quickly, to make sure that there are properties for people to move into. That approach is slightly different from the approaches of West Lothian, Dundee and other areas. We have engaged with all that. The officials will engage with all RSLs and local authorities on that as we go ahead.

If there are any specific examples about furniture, I will be happy to pick up that point. I had not heard of that particular case but, if there are examples, I can pick those up and come back to you.

I will bring in Stephen Garvin, then I want to add a few things on our general approach to RAAC, not just when it comes to housing but more broadly.

Local Government, Housing and Planning Committee [Draft]

Building Safety and Maintenance

Meeting date: 22 April 2025

Paul McLennan

Again, that is why what the LHEES looks like is really important. You are right that there will be a mix of tenures, as there was in Wester Hailes, for example, for the area-based schemes. The approaches will obviously be slightly different. In Wester Hailes, for example, if there was a private tenant, there were different ways to provide the funding, so there are different ways to look at the issue. The overall funding package is an important part. In Wester Hailes, the area-based schemes allowed people to plan things out.

Having spoken to the City of Edinburgh Council teams at the time, I think that the consultation at the outset and the discussions that took place were key. I had a chance to speak to private tenants and social or local authority tenants about how that was done. That approach worked, and it was very much done in consultation with tenants, whether they were private tenants or council tenants. We need to consider that approach, which worked, as we go forward. The process will need to work in different parts of Edinburgh and in different parts of Scotland. The area-based schemes and the work in Wester Hailes show that that approach works.