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I will speak just to my amendment 36, which would amend the bill in relation to the provision for the SFC to appoint co-opted members. Amendment 36 is a small change that would make it clear that the terms and conditions on which co-opted members of the SFC are appointed would include any remuneration and allowances that they are to receive. I hope that the committee can support that clarification of the bill.

That is an ideal way to finish, convener. Thank you very much.

I am conscious that we are probably already over time, but there are a couple of key things for me.

In your introduction, you talked about the participation strategy. When it comes down to it, the work you do is all about people and the lived experience. We can all talk about the politics and whatever else, but the work is all about people and how it impacts on their lives. A key question for me is: how can you use lived experience going forward? We have had various evidence sessions, and what really strikes me is when people tell us how something has individually impacted on them. How do you bring that lived experience into the work that you continue to do?

I agree with you that there is a role for us all. If we are talking about the broader equalities agenda, it is political, but it is political for all of us. It is obviously more so for the Government, but it is politically on all of us to make sure that we bring in lived experience. The political discourse on equalities is just awful at the moment, so can you say more about how we make the lived experience as real as possible?

Thank you—it is key.

My final question is: if we are sitting here five years from now and having the same kind of session, what does success look like in what the Scottish Government does, what the Parliament does and what the wider public sector does? Where do we want to get to for the Government, for Parliament and for the wider Scottish public sector?

I know that that is a big question, but what does success look like in a few key objectives? It is on all of us as Government, as parliamentarians and the wider public sector to act, and we want to be able to say, “You told us five years ago that we had to deliver on this; it is up to every single one of us to deliver for you.”

Jan, would you like to add anything?

That is the key thing for us all and, as I said, it is a challenge that we need to accept as parliamentarians. If we are back here in five years, asking the same questions, and we have failed, it will be a failure on us all. It is not just on the Government or Parliament; it would be a failure on us all.

Looking forward, if we are still sitting here in five years’ time, before the end of the next parliamentary session, how will we measure success? I totally understand and appreciate what you have said about the work that is being done, but how will we measure its success? During last week’s debate on the Community Wealth Building (Scotland) Bill, a key issue that was raised was that of how we measure success. If the committee is looking at the same issue in five years’ time, how will we measure success? What will enable us to say to the TSIs and the groups in Blairgowrie, “This is how we’ve been successful”? How will we monitor success? How will we ensure that parity of esteem is embedded? What will enable us to say, “Right, we’ve done this because of A, B and C”?

I want to build on that line of questioning. When we visited Blairgowrie a month ago, a key issue that came up was that of how local delivery was. The council and volunteer organisations from Blairgowrie were at that meeting, and their key points were about policy making and budgets. Last week, we heard from the TSIs in various parts of Scotland, and, again, the issues of policy making, budgeting and making service delivery as local as possible came up.

How do we start to embed local delivery? We have talked about how to localise decision making for a long time. It came through strongly at last week’s meeting that TSIs do not feel that there is parity of esteem between national Government, local government and their organisations. What do we need to do to change the culture, which I saw as a councillor and as a Scottish Government minister? What do we need to do to embed a local approach? People do not feel that they are involved in policy making or in decision making on funding. How can we cement a local approach? How can we change things in the next session of Parliament to ensure that parity of esteem is embedded and that organisations such as TSIs and those that we met in Blairgowrie feel that there is a level playing field for them?

You make a good point, and we will open it to the floor.

One of the key things is that Scotland and UK are the most centralised Governments in Europe. They are far too centralised. Even our local authorities are much bigger than municipal authorities in other parts of Europe. Are there lessons to be learnt about how we deliver services? How do we localise services in the best way possible? That is a key issue for us to look at.

I am the MSP for East Lothian. I was previously a councillor in East Lothian. I was also the Minister for Housing for a couple of years, until June this year.