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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 19 June 2025
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Displaying 1622 contributions

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Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Michelle Thomson

Yes. You make a fair point about the budget being demand led and the implications of that.

A third aspect, which my colleague Liz Smith asked about earlier, is data. I have asked questions before about the lack of Scotland-specific data. I am thinking about inflation in particular. A lot of interesting geopolitics is going on that could impact on oil and gas, and Scotland鈥檚 economy has a reliance on that. We also have changes to national insurance contributions that could affect interest rates. What appetite is there in all the relevant institutions to make advances by starting to collect Scotland-specific data?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Michelle Thomson

I do not disagree, but I think that we would struggle to get to 拢262 billion.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Budget Scrutiny 2025-26 (United Kingdom Context)

Meeting date: 3 December 2024

Michelle Thomson

The idea of boosting the Scottish sample size is one that I have taken up directly with the ONS.

My final question is one that I tend to ask every year. I am not up to date with the latest statistics, but we know that the cost of corruption has a fairly significant impact on UK GDP. A figure of about 拢262 billion each and every year for money laundering and so on was being touted three years ago. What is your thinking on that? A while ago, at the start of this year, the UK again dropped down the Transparency International corruption index, but corruption continues to take a significant amount off UK GDP.

David, I may have asked you this last year or the year before, but to what extent do you take account of the cost of corruption, given the constraints on public finances? Do you have any thoughts on that?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Michelle Thomson

Precisely.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Michelle Thomson

When I ask that question, I am not trying to lead you. It is not a political point; it is about programme efficiency. Fundamentally, the accountability has to be absolutely clear otherwise it leads inevitably to inefficiencies in spend and it affects the ultimate scrutiny of outcomes.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Michelle Thomson

Good morning and thank you for joining us.

I have a few questions that follow on from the themes that Kevin Stewart was exploring. We will all be familiar with accountability versus responsibility. All of the funding lines have three components鈥攆unding from the UK Government, from the Scottish Government and from the local authority. In that governance structure, who is ultimately accountable? Catherine Young, you are looking up. You can go first.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Michelle Thomson

The whole change management function that you articulate is understood and people will use that as effectively as possible. However, when it comes to a key decision, it is exactly the same as when you set up a company structure. You always want to have a majority shareholder. You would never have a 50:50 shareholding because there is always the possibility that people will not agree. You need the minimum share to be 51 per cent to 49 per cent. Even though what you describe might make things marginally more effective, ultimately the accountability remains uncertain.

10:45  

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Michelle Thomson

You, and indeed Mr Stewart, made the point about the value of communities. To what extent will local communities perceive these programmes as being done to them rather than done through them?

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Michelle Thomson

I want to bring in Audit Scotland here. Many years ago, I had another life doing project management and large-scale so-called transformational change programme management. Of course, the laugh was that the only time your plan was ever accurate was at the end of the programme or whatever. That comes with the job.

From Audit Scotland鈥檚 perspective, going back to the concept of scrutiny where there are diffuse accountabilities, it can become a bit of a circular firing squad. What role do you see for yourselves going forward in this complex multitude of city region deals? As we said, some started years ago, like Glasgow in 2014, while Falkirk, which is in my area, was signed last week.

The committee has chosen to do an inquiry into this but if we wait until the end of the deals, 25 years down the line, the only thing that we can be certain of is that we will have got lots of stuff wrong. Where do you see yourselves fitting in to avoid that circular firing squad? Where do you see a committee such as ours fitting in and, indeed, who else would fit in? We can be confident that a lot of this will be wrong because that is its nature.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

City Region and Regional Growth Deals

Meeting date: 27 November 2024

Michelle Thomson

I am hearing from you that you agree that the arrangement is fundamentally quite untidy because we have, in effect, two accountable partners and a delivery partner in the form of the local authority. Neil McInroy, it looks as though you want to come in on that point.