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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 4 May 2021
  6. Current session: 13 May 2021 to 26 December 2025
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Displaying 1897 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

That is a very honest answer.

Economy and Fair Work Committee

Town Centres and Retail

Meeting date: 25 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

Without my leading you, it sounds like you are almost promising me that you will reflect on that as you develop your women’s strategy.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

I, too, was going to drift on to that subject, with your permission, convener. I was very interested in the SCVO submission, which makes a number of comments that allude to something that I asked the earlier panel about, which is the complexity of aligning national outcomes with budgets, and the situation being about more than that. Wellbeing measures are relatively immature in economic terms. You referenced the advisory group on economic recovery electing not to use the NPF, but instead using the four capitals framework. I have absolute sympathy with that approach being adopted, and with your comments. My question is this: is it not just really difficult?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

I agree with what you said about the human rights element, which will give a different perspective that should be enlightening. My question is, to what extent is the NPF already not gender blind, but fully aware at every step and every measure. I appreciate that this is a huge question to ask, but in general terms, what assessment—red, amber or green—would you give it?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

It is a very interesting area but I will move on, as it is quite a big area, too.

This is my final question. In this evidence session and in others, we have touched on the lack of linkage to budget planning. My observation is that the means of measuring wellbeing in economic terms are still relatively underdeveloped—academics such as Rutger Hoekstra, the author of “Replacing GDP by 2030”, are still puzzling over that. Is the real issue the fact that our adherence to gross domestic product—because it gives firmer measures—makes it difficult to measure wellbeing and link it to economic activity, and therefore to the budget? Is that the real challenge, which we have to accept is difficult and have to keep working on?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

I have given you a get-out.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

I want to ask Jamie Livingstone a question that was asked at the tail end of the previous session. To what extent is the NPF gender blind? I fully accept the need to take account of the other protected characteristics as well, but I am asking about gender blindness specifically in terms of processes and culture. Gender blindness can often be part of culture without organisations being conscious of it. You reference Engender in your submission, so I would like your thoughts about that.

11:45  

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

On that point about data, I noticed that Paul Bradley referenced methodology in his submission. I brought up the point with the Deputy First Minister—it seems like ages ago, now—that I did not have any sense that methodologies were being used. We have not really even begun to consider that whole area. I am not saying that there is a right or wrong way, but that is incredibly important when it comes to data. Furthermore, the lack of data is just as important as the data that we have.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

Good morning, and thank you for attending. I have a couple of brief questions.

First, I will take things back to the top. We discussed earlier the legislation requiring you to have regard to the Community Empowerment (Scotland) Act 2015. My general question, which sets aside some of the issues with the NPF that we have covered, is whether, in a perfect world, it would be beneficial to have something tighter than merely “having regard to” the national performance framework, along with a sexier name, clearer linkages and so on. These are national missions, so would that be beneficial? In other words, does the concept of “having regard to” allow agencies some wriggle room?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

National Performance Framework: Ambitions into Action

Meeting date: 24 May 2022

Michelle Thomson

Before you come in, Tim, you referenced—I am quoting loosely—raising our game with regard to the climate emergency. What I am trying to get at is this. I fully accept your comment that, if everything is a priority, nothing is a priority, so if we had fewer national priorities but they were utterly compelling—climate change, for example—could it be advantageous to have something tighter than merely the duty to have regard to them?