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Chamber and committees

Official Report: search what was said in Parliament

The Official Report is a written record of public meetings of the Parliament and committees.  

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Dates of parliamentary sessions
  1. Session 1: 12 May 1999 to 31 March 2003
  2. Session 2: 7 May 2003 to 2 April 2007
  3. Session 3: 9 May 2007 to 22 March 2011
  4. Session 4: 11 May 2011 to 23 March 2016
  5. Session 5: 12 May 2016 to 5 May 2021
  6. Current session: 12 May 2021 to 18 June 2025
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Displaying 1622 contributions

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Economy and Fair Work Committee

Registers of Scotland

Meeting date: 2 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

Yes. I do not know whether I am right on the day rate, because it was just a quick calculation. I am asking about types of skills, because people who have skills such as Java will be picked up. Although your plan to get your staff up to speed on those skills addresses one problem, it also introduces a new organisational risk, because those staff will have skills that are sellable at a daily rate of ÂŁ600, which most people would consider useful. Can I assume that the risk side, from an IT perspective, is also in your personnel planning?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

I have a couple of questions for you, Eileen. A number of times, the committee has had a discussion about the benefits of multiyear versus single-year budgeting. In principle, everyone understands that issue. How aware are you of the challenges that the Scottish Government has had because of its inability to undertake multiyear budgeting?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

That leads me on to my main question. The committee was helped ably by the clerks in devising the call for evidence for the inquiry. One of the questions that was asked was:

“Does the framework properly reflect the current economic and political context?”

I was a bit surprised that neither the SCVO submission nor the Universities Scotland submission reflected on the political context. In the answer that you just gave, you clearly highlight a political context: the rest of the UK has gone down a fees route and levied loans on students, but the Scottish Government has elected not to do that. I do not know whether this figure is correct—it is probably a few years out of date—but in Holland, for example, the aggregated figure for funding to universities from central Government is 61 per cent. There is clearly a stark difference.

I was surprised not to see a reflection of the political context in the Universities Scotland submission, given the comment about

“attracting a working-age population from outside our borders”.

As we know, Scotland has been greatly affected by Brexit.

Paul Bradley mentioned SNIB. I agree that ÂŁ2 billion in capital expenditure is a low figure. I would like it to be much higher.

My question to all three witnesses is: what makes you avoid that political context? I am well aware that we live in polarised times in Scotland. I understand that, and I do not see it from one side of the fence; I merely recognise it as a fact. As a relatively new member, I see that people who give evidence to this committee and to the Economy and Fair Work Committee are reluctant to tell it how it is for fear of getting into a debate that is quite polarised at the moment. From my point of view, as a member of this committee, which is interested in the numbers and the financial transactions, that reluctance inhibits understanding. We saw that earlier when we talked about COSLA and CIPFA.

In the light of your comments this morning, would you like to add anything that is not in your submission in relation to the question:

“Does the framework properly reflect the current economic and political context?”

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

Now you are on it.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

What is the aggregated figure?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

I think that that message has come through clearly.

Within COSLA, how commonly understood is the budget process that the Scottish Government goes through? For example, do you understand that there are 11th-hour changes and that those have an impact on financial flow-throughs?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

Alastair Sim, you quoted a figure per head for students. What is the overall percentage of Scottish Government funding for the universities sector? I ask because I am not sure of the figure.

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

I suppose that the framework is attempting to do that as we all move beyond a difficult financial time.

One of the committee’s other concerns is the general lack of understanding of how the budget process works for the Scottish Government and the impact that it has on everyone else’s budgets. You are clearly across that and you will understand that, for example, the final figures came in literally at the 11th hour—the night before stage 3. However, how clearly is that understood by your colleagues in CIPFA and the council? I think that it was the finance secretary who said that it is like trying to land a 747 on a postage stamp, which describes it well. What is your perception of how clearly the process is understood across the board among your colleagues in CIPFA and the council?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

Yes, it does. Going to your accountancy background, I have asked on a number of different occasions whether data on how much time is spent on the process—you spoke earlier about opportunity cost—is collected when we go through that curmudgeonly process? Doing projections that are promptly zapped is often a waste of time. That is one area where I would be looking to note how many days are being used in order to illustrate inefficiencies, when it is all changed at the 11th hour. Does CIPFA or COSLA collect that data?

Finance and Public Administration Committee

Resource Spending Review Framework

Meeting date: 1 March 2022

Michelle Thomson

Do you know what the aggregated percentage is for the rest of the UK? I am just interested.